#1 Fasting Doctor: The FASTEST Way To Lose Weight & Prevent Disease (Dr Jason Fung)
you simply cannot lose body fat when your
inul levels are high and you're eating you can't cuz your body is getting the instructions
to store calories not burn calories one thing that really stops autophagy is protein Dr Jason
fun the founder of intermittent fasting and the bestselling author of the Obesity code he's on
a mission to fix the Obesity epidemic and save your life before it's too late so if you think the
calories comes first then you simply say cut 500 calories from your diet every day and you will
lose a pound a week that's the standard advice that we've given for 30 years has it helped
not at all the Obesity appid has gone way out so it's not calories it's really the insulin
and if you think about weight gain obesity as a excess of insulin then you can say well how do
you lower insulin now you use something like Aid fasting for example where you allow insulin
levels to fall as you allow insulin levels to fall you take away this block to fat burning and
sugar burning what do you think about breakfast whole thing about breakfast you know on the
one hand if you eat your calories earlier it is better for you than eating later every day
you should have about 12 to 14 hours that's just regular then if you want to lose weight then
you can push it up what's better fasting or OIC I think they're different Over The Last 5 Years I'll
tell you that it's far from a Panacea people think it's great it's going to cure everything but the
truth is that a lot of people just don't stay on it when it comes to weight loss and preventing
chronic health conditions there are so many different protocols supplements and diets but it's
important to understand what works for somebody else might not work for you and that's why in
this episode I had the honor of speaking with Dr Jason fun Dr Jason fun will explain the three
main principles to help your body burn body fat and also prevent chronic disease through what you
eat but most importantly when you eat and it's not about lowering calories and if you're learning
from and enjoying these episodes please hit the Subscribe button that is an excellent zeroc cost
way to support this free health podcast because this information is not what you'll hear from
big food or big farmer and by subscribing you can help share this message to Millions
more people that need to hear it thank you Dr fun welcome thanks for having me when
we think about people around us it could be our family it could be our friends we probably know
somebody that is overweight severely overweight or has a metabolic disease like diabetes cancer
dementia even heart disease and we're told there's nothing that we can do about it but Dr fun you
say otherwise you say the reason why we're sick and fat is because we've been focusing on the
wrong thing so today Dr fun is going to share his Decades of experience and talk about a very
simple way that you can make your body burn fat and reverse metabolic disease and why this is
better than any medication that you can take including OIC so Dr F my first question let's talk
about losing weight fixing obesity what is the biggest cause of obesity um essentially I think
that the uh problem is hyperinsulinemia which is really a hormonal issue and this comes down to a
lot of people will say well it's about 200 many calories or you know or something like that um
however I think that doesn't really address the actual underlying problem because um the thing is
that our bodies respond to hormones right so if we are gaining uh body fat then it's because the
hormones have signaled us to gain body fat really every single system in our body works the same
way nothing happens by accident and it's because in order for us to um you know regulate this
very highly complex system which has lots of interconnections everybody has to know what's
happening with everything else so insulin is a hormone that essentially tells us to store body
fat that's sort of its JW right so when you eat the hormone insulin is going to rise and therefore
um that's a signal for us to store some of it as um you know body fat which is essentially a store
of calories right so it doesn't have happened by accident everybody has this mistaken notion that
we have a certain amount that we put in a certain amount that we put at you know that we burn
and any excess goes into fat and it that that part that goes into fat is completely unregulated
but it's simply not true it's actually completely inconceivable that the Body Works that way and the
the reason is that most of us for most of us the body weight stays stable for example if you think
about weight gain the average um over the last 30 40 years really even with this entire obesity
epidemic is about a pound a year a pound of body fat is about 3,500 calories um you know which is
about two days worth of um eating which means that our bodies has like we have to match the amount
of calories we eat with calories we burn to within like a 99% you know uh failure rate right like
the be essentially no errors yet we don't know how many uh calories we eat and how many calories
we burn so how can you maintain it within a 99% sort of accuracy without that so this idea that
it's simply some unregulated dump of calories is is not true so if if you think about it that way
then what happens is people just say oh eat less calories which is just not useful advice and
I don't know why people think it's useful like that's the same advice that we've been giving for
25 35 years and it really hasn't helped anybody um you know you look at the number of people who have
had struggled with it and essentially all of them have done calorie counting and it doesn't work so
it's it's not understanding that it's not calories because our bodies respond to hormones there is
certain calories are going to stimulate insulin more than other calories so if you eat cookies
you're going to stimulate insulin more which means you're going to store more of that as body
fat which simply means and and you compare that to an egg for example then you don't stimulate
as much insulin which means you don't store as much of those calories as fat and you burn more
of those calories right that's that's all that happens and the the whole idea which is is simply
that um we're just saying that some foods are more fattening than other Foods right so cookies are
more fattening than broccoli or eggs which isn't really that far stretch like how many people
do you really have said well you know I got fat because I ate too much broccoli right like
come on never right but if you say oh I eat too much cookies sure that could totally gain to make
I take too many chips I made too many you know um too much junk food too much fast food sure Candy
any of that but oh I ate too much salmon it's like um I don't know I don't know that that's actually
a reason so it's not calories it's really the ins and and if you think about weight gain obesity as
a excess of insulin then you can say well how do you lower insulin right because that sets you
on the right track and this means to say that well you want to eat foods that don't stimulate
as much insulin as in eat more food that's less fattening for you which again if you simply go
back you know uh to the 60s and 70s you could find all this advice and all the popular media
right like don't eat cookies if you want to eat we cut out this starchy Foods cut out the um the
sugary Foods cut out the desserts you know cut out the snacks right and it's very simple but see
the thing about hyperinsulinemia so if you think about insulin is a hormone that makes tells your
body gain weight that's is job the problem is that you have too much of it the reason you have too
much of it is because you're eating foods that stimulate it more than it should um but you can
also see that a lot of the diseases that follow along are also diseases of too much insulin so
type two diabetes is also a disease where it's very easy to measure you measure insulin levels
or Sky High the disease is that you have too much insulin so therefore you have to lower it and
if you you know obesity and type two diabetes then lead to all those other diseases like heart
attacks and strokes and all those other things and again you can you can follow the medical
uh literature and you can see hyperinsulinemia is a huge risk factor for all kinds of diseases
including cancers including heart disease and all that so a lot of these diseases um are diseases of
sort of hyper insulinemia which come back down to not simply eating too many calories that's not
the issue like you eat a lot of broccoli like you can eat excessive amounts of broccoli like
calories like broccoli and you simply won't gain weight right because other things will happen
your body's going to adjust because if you're not stimulating the insulin you're eating all
those calories well your body's going to burn it right it's not going to store it because
you didn't tell it to store it and because of that then you're going to want to stop eating it
because your body has natural satiety mechanisms whereas if you store it and this is the thing I
don't I don't really understand well how these calorie people don't understand this suppose you
eat a food that is very stimulating for insulin so you eat you know white bread and jam right
lots of sugar lots of refined carbohydrates so we know that the minute you eat that food that
you know you can eat say 100 calories of that compared to 100 calories of an egg the difference
is that that the the white bread and jaam is going to spike your insulin through the roof whereas
the egg is not right so you have to pretend that those calorie the hormones simply don't matter
for our body which is obviously a very difficult thing to reconcile however if you say okay that
insulin you take 100 calories insulin spikes way high okay with the with the uh White breaded
Jem that's going to tell your body to store all of those calories so now those 100 calories goes
directly into fat stores because that's how your body stores stores calories well if all of that
went into your stores you have nothing left right to use for energy so you eat that white bread jab
you know a few hours later your body's like I have energy because everything's stored away I can't
use it so therefore it's going to make you want to go eat which is exactly what happens of course
so you eat that white bread and jam which is all refined carbs then by 10:30 you're just ravenous
you're looking for another something else to eat right whereas you eat that egg your body didn't
store that much of it as calories so therefore it's burning it and it's not and and you're not
going to need to eat at 10:30 so it's like you know all these people say it's all about calories
all about calorie like what are you talking about right what happened to those calories the minute
you put them in your mouth is completely different depending on what the hormones tell it to do
so why do you pretend that it's completely irrelevant and By ignoring that sort of physiology
of what happens to food and hormones in our body they sort of set up this entire thing where
everybody's just sort of counting C calories you know so they're eating these foods but they're
not watching what's happening after that laa gets stored away so therefore at the same time that
they're storing all this excess you know body fat because it's a store of calories they're
ravenously hungry I'm wondering you know why why am I so hungry it's like well because you
didn't sort of fix that whole problem where you need to use you you know instead of storing energy
you want to use the energy so the whole thing is sort of misguided and it's always a little bit um
you know I always get a little discouraged that people don't there's no effort to make people
H have people understand this right all the sort of you talk to any so-called experts or you
know dietitians and doctors and stuff and it's all about calories calories calal well why don't
you pay attention to what type of calories you're eating because it's really important like it's
it's it's not like irrelevant right which which people say it is because they're like oh you know
100 calories of cookies is as fattening as 100 calories of broccoli no they're not because
the way you store it is different depending on what happens to your hormones once you eat it
absolutely I think you know the work that you do it does touch a lot of people and it helps so many
people I posted on X or Twitter that I'm speaking to you today and so many people said Dr Jason
fun has changed my life so the work that you do the work that a lot of the doctors that I have
on my podcast channel do changes people's lives we're going to touch more about hormones versus
calories so that people have a deep understanding of the difference and Insulin but Dr fun you are
a nephologist a kidney doctor and you wrote a New York Times bestselling book the Obesity code why
did you write that book I think it was um because I was very interested in the question of how
to reverse type two diabetes so a lot of kidney disease is caused by type two diabetes IES and
type two diabetes is essentially quite simple to understand it's your basically your body has too
much sugar remember that glucose um you know when we talk about sugar you talk about table sugar
but um and that's a glucose and fructose which is sucrose but sugar is a generic term that includes
glucose so if you eat carbohydrates like bread um starchy Foods basically starches are long chains
of glucose which is a sugar right so when your body has too much glucose that it store some of it
but then eventually it spills out the blood your blood glucose which is your blood sugar goes up
and you get diagnosed with type two diabetes which is really the biggest cause of of kidney disease
uh in the United States and Canada then of course uh we've had this big uh epidemic of OB see then
an epidemic of type two diabetes which is leading to more kidney disease so a few years ago probably
about 10 years ago I I was was very you know I I started to really question what I had been taught
which is that type 2 diabetes is a chronic and Progressive disease and um I realized that it
wasn't it was actually just a lie and it was funny because at the same time that every Diabetes
Association in the world what doctors were being taught what dietitians were being taught what
the American Diabetes Association had their on website was it's a chronic and Progressive disease
everybody knew it was lie because if you lost weight your diabetes would either get better or go
away so to me it was this this horrifying sort of divide between what the sort of authorities were
saying which was a complete fabrication and very harmful to people right you tell them that they
can't do anything about it they won't do anything about it right you should be telling them they
can do something about it and telling them how so as this horrifying divide between what the the
medical authorities were saying and what was the the TRU truth and and the truth is that it was a
reversible disease but you had to focus on weight loss so I got very interested in that question of
weight loss which is how I sort of started really thinking about that entire problem of calories
because I had believed it was all about calories all about calories for so long as well but it
simply wasn't true it didn't hold up to any um uh rigorous thinking about the problem and you know
this this this whole problem of uh weight gain was more of a hormonal issue and if you fix that
and there are various ways you can fix that of you know changing the diet is probably the best way
uh but also using things like intermittent fasting as a tool could be very effective then you can
reverse the type two diabetes and and as I started to implement it in my in my clinic I actually saw
the most sort of amazing results it was like uh for example one fellow uh he I'd been treating him
for like 10 years and he had type two diabetes and he was very rigorous he wanted to get better but
I had given him sort of the standard but wrong advice then I told him okay well what you need to
do is restrict your carbohydrates you know if you have if your body has too much glucose why are
you eating glucose right that doesn't make any sense so if you think about type two diabetes your
blood glucose or blood sugar is high we know that certain foods will raise your blood glucose if
you eat bread you're eating glucose because it's a starch so it's glucose and therefore your blood
glucose goes up if you eat an equivalent amount of calories say have an egg which is proteins and
fats you're not eating glucose you're eating amino acids and triglycerides so certain foods would
raise your blood glucose certain foods don't raise your blood glucose so why were you eating
foods that raise your blood glucose didn't make any sense but that was a standard advice so I
told them to do that I told him that you could use interr riched fasting because if you don't
eat your body will simply burn off that glucose and your blood GL ghost will get better and and
he was on you know he was on like a 100 units plus of insulin and you know I I I simply made
a few changes to his diet and within a month I swear his his entire came off all of diabetic
medications and his A1C went down to like 5.9 which actually classified him as a non-diabetic
which is sort of insane like to me it was sort of eye opening that I had treated this fellow so
incredibly incorrectly and it was a standard way that everybody's treating him like he had other
Specialists other doctors who treating him the exact same way but never the last it was patient
that I treated that really had been done a very big disservice not having known that information
so that's where I started to write about it and I was like oh wow this is like this is like sort
of insane so I wrote about it in the diabetes code which was about how you could actually reverse
typ two diabetes and that that got published in 2018 it wasn't until 2021 that the American
Diabetes Association finally said that it's a disease that can be reversed there's criteria
for remission it's a reversible disease it's like goodness it took you know you know all this
time and be calling it the biggest lie in type two diabetes for them to finally admit what was pretty
obvious to anybody who would think about it like I don't think anybody really thought about it for
for a long time or if they did they they simply went with a consensus which is again slightly
horrifying to me as Dr fun mentions an excellent zeroc cost way to help your body burn body fat
and also prevent chronic health conditions is to incorporate two strategies intermittent fasting
or a fasting schedule and also lowering your carbohydrates and later in the episode Dr fun
will talk more about how to incorporate these two strategies but as you do this you might might
experience some side effects like nausea fatigue and headaches and this is quite normal because
your body is Shifting towards using ketones for energy as opposed to glucose so an excellent zeroc
cost way to help is to use some high quality salt you can salt your meals and you can also salt your
water but over time if this doesn't help I would highly recommend that you use a highquality
electrolyte supplement and the one that I recommend is element because element contains the
right amount of sodium pottassium and magnesium the great thing about element is that it doesn't
contain any nasties any preservatives and nothing artificial and I like to use the raw unflavored
option in my morning coffee my husband loves the chocolate Salt and the watermelon salt in his
coffee and his other drinks and element has also launched their new sparkling water range and right
now element is offering this free sample pack on any purchase so you're going to get eight single
servings of element to try for free so if you want this just head to drink element.com 5minute body
that's d i n KLM nt.com sl5 minute body to get this free sample pack let's talk about hormonal
Theory versus calorie Theory let's talk about the hormone Source because that's the answer and then
if people can understand that they'll understand how to burn body fat they'll understand how to
reverse metabolic disease now you alluded to this earlier it's about insulin so when your insulin
is elevated that is telling you body to store fat let's talk about in terms of when somebody eats
some food so it could be like even a peanut butter sandwich with whole grain bread sounds pretty
healthy uh it could be a lowfat muffin in terms of the food energy when you eat that food what's
actually physiologically happening in the body so if you eat say uh that food the insulin is going
to go up and insulin is a hormone it's a natural hormone everybody says I'm trying to demon and I'm
not it's a natural hormone but the issue is that if it's too high it's bad if it's too low it's
bad and that's no different than any other hormone thyroid hormone if it's too high it's bad if
it's too low it's bad I'm not saying that thyroid hormone is bad for you but you want to have it
in the normal range so insulin's job it has many jobs but one of its jobs is to tell you to store
energy and this is a survival mechanism obviously so in if you're you know a caveman or cave woman
and food is scarce and stuff so when you you eat you want to be able to store some of that so your
body will store that in the form of body fat it's a store of calories sort of no more and no less
but it's regulated that is the the hormones tell you when to put it in and when to take it out
so when insulin goes up you simply you you you simply tell your body that you want to take the
calories that you're eating right now and you want to store some of it away for future use which
is smart right um and it turns off fat burning and it turns off sugar burning so you know your
body has two sources of energy glucose which is sugar and fat okay so you can store sugar in the
form of glycogen in the liver and you can store fat in the form of body fat when insulin goes up
what happens is that you stop burning glucose and you stop burning fat so insulin inhibits likeis
which is the breakdown of fat and it inhibits uh it's inhibits glyco uh glycolysis which is um the
glycogenolysis sorry which is the breaking down of glycogen so you basically stop burning sugar you
stop burning fat and you store it right so that's that's sensible if you're eating it then you don't
want to use your stores you want it because you're putting it in not taking it out so essentially
when you're eating you're storing calories that's what insulin is telling you to do if ins if if the
food that you eat shoots your insulin way up high you're going to store more of it if your insulin
goes down only then can you actually burn those sugar and fat which are those stores of calories
because when insulin goes down your body senses okay so I'm not getting food anymore so I have no
source of energy coming in I need to use my own stores of energy and and and burn it right so not
difficult when you eat insulin goes up you store energy when insulin is down which happens when
you don't eat then that's when you burn calories in the form of sugar or fat so therefore if you
really want to burn fat you simply cannot have insulin way high like because you're fighting
yourself all the time so even if you cut your calories but you keep your insulin levels very
high you can't burn those calories so what happens so say you eat 2,000 calories normally
you burn 2,000 calories now you dropped it to5 100 calories going in but you keep insulin levels
very high because you're eating you know very high carbohydrate Foods you're stacking all the time
you're eating all the time well if you're only taking in, 1500 but you C you can't burn sugar
you can't burn your stores of fat what's going to happen well the only way you can balance this
equation and 1,500 going in and 2,000 going out is for you to drop how much you burn for 2,000 to
1500 so people talk about this because it's this metabolic rate which is how much energy you're
burning now has gone down and happens with dieting because you haven't watched what's happening with
with your calories uh with your hormones because you've kept the insulin too high now you use
something like inter fasting for example where you allow insulin levels to fall as you allow
insulin levels to fall you take away this block to fat burning and sugar burning so now you eat,
1500 calories because you dropped one meal however because you allow your inul levels to fall you can
take 500 calories out of your fat stores so you've got, 1500 in food you got 500 from your body
fat stores so you don't have to drop your your your your the energy expend the 2,000 calories so
therefore that's exactly what you want to happen right so keeping your insul levels high is is
is really bad from a from a number of issues so the thing is that some people have taken that
and said well it's all about carbohydrates cutting carbs it's not necessarily because there's a lot
of things that contribute uh between you know the carbohydrate and the insulin response so the lots
of things will influence it you know things such as what else you eat your carbohydrates with sort
of vinegars and acids will influence it if you eat the carbohydrates first versus last that makes
a difference to how much insulin response you have how processed those carbohydrates are so you
can take two foods like oatmeal for example you have you can compare steel cut oats to instant
oats and you'll find that one has a much higher glycemic index which measures how higher glucose
and Insulin goes up right so the when you process a food like with instant oatmeal you get much
higher glycemic index which is going to drive your insulin levels much higher which is going to
drive the insulin much more so the whole idea is that it's not simply about calories calories is
not the sort of and you know be all and end all when you lower your calories your G lose weight
no you don't have to if you lower your calories you simply burn less right if you eat less and you
burn less you don't lose weight that also balances the equation so people talk about oh you know
it's the first law of thermodynamics it's like people who say that clearly don't understand what
I'm talking about because you know if you think about it it's thermodynamics is about where energy
goes that's exactly what I'm talking about right what's going in what's going out and what's being
stored there are three variables right that have to balance when you change one of them which is
the amount of calories you put in you can balance that with either the calories that you store which
is body fat or the calories you burn right so if you eat less but burn less your body fat stays
the same so you know it's it's it's about tracking that energy of where it goes that is if you gain
too much you know body fat it's not necessarily because you're eating excessive calories it could
simply be that those calories stimulate excessive you're storing too much of those calories right
that's a possibility processed foods is is sort of a classic because you know a lot of processed
foods drive that insulin Spike up so in terms of absorption when you eat um you know a whole
grain or you know if you eat things that are very unprocessed your body body takes a while
to digest it so so glucose sort of goes up very slowly and Insulin goes up very slowly when you
eat it processed version the insulin the glucose spikes up the insulin spikes up and that's why
people talk about Ultra processed foods now and why they're so bad for you but the people who
only look at calories or only look at carbs say oh there's no difference in the number of calories
it's like but you're not thinking about the rest of physiology there's a whole lot of physiology
what's happened to the hormones and it's not simply insulin there are other hormones that are
involved like uh gp1s and Gip and synthetic tone and uh cortisol so there's a whole lot of other
hormonal systems that do play a role as well so you have to think about that and that's that's
why I'm always you know I'm I'm always trying to just tell people about this is how it works
because once you understand how it works you can decide which part of the process that is
the problem for you um if it's if it's if it's that you're eating too much ultr processed foods
then you cut that down right you might eat and I remember um reading this very interesting study
about the southern diet there's talking about and it it was a people who ate a lot of very highly
processed foods uh in the Deep South uh where there is a lot of obesity and the interesting
part is that when you actually tally the number of calories they're eating it actually wasn't much
different than any body else you know so people in Mississippi for example who are eating this very
highly processed diet um we're eating about the same number of of um calories as everybody else
in the nation like you know PE like you know Colorado where they have very little obesity for
example it was the quality of those those calories one was very highly processed and one was not and
that was the difference not the calories but the processing which influenced the hormone response
absolutely um I'm thinking about people that say look I get it it's about lowering insulin but
Dr Fong you need to be in a calorie deficit you cannot lose weight even in a because if you eat
in a calorie Surplus as well as address hormones so lowering the insulin you're still going to
not lose weight does that work out that way or is it something else no it always is it always
is a calorie deficit if you lose weight but it's remember it's there never actually is a calorie
deficit right it's a balanced equation that is if you look at body fat equals calories in minus
calories out right there's no inequality there it's a balanced equation there are three variables
that have to balance so if you're going to you know say you um start to you know the problem
with that is that if you say it's a calorie deficit then you say okay how are you going to
generate that calorie deficit that's the question not that is there a calorie deficit when you have
a calorie deficit means that because that's two of the variables that means body fat is going down
essentially you're taking calories out of your storage system right that's what you want to do
well how are you going to do that right so that's the question so it's not that there is a calorie
deficit it's sort of like saying you know if you have alcoholism drunkenness equals alcohol in
minus alcohol out and I say well you know you people are drunk because they're suffering from
depression or something like that right and it's like oh that's not the problem the problem is
alcohol you need to be in an alcohol deficit it's like that's stupid right it's it's about treating
the depression right it's the alcoholism right it's the it's it's the it's the depression which
drives the alcoholism which drives you to drink more alcohol and over alcohol out it's what's
driving the alcohol in greater than alcohol out same thing what's driving you to store more is
what drives in calories in minus calories out right so it's it's about what comes first and what
comes last they both happen but which comes first and which comes last so if you think the calories
comes first then you simply say cut 500 calories from your diet every day and you will lose a pound
a week that's a standard advice that we've given for 30 years has it helped not at all like not
at all the Obesity epidemic has gone way up so then what happens of course is that people say
well we gave this advice and people didn't listen to it right it's like okay but now you're blaming
people as opposed to the advice that you're giving you think the advice like if you know you give a
certain advice which is cut your calories and it doesn't work like objectively you know it hasn't
worked because obesity has gone up so either the advice is bad or the people are bad so you're
blaming people you're saying the advice is good and people are just really bad people they don't
they're lazy they don't want to listen and that's where you get all this stuff with fat shaming
and stuff right because it's this idea that if you're fat it's because you're lazy and you have
no willpower I don't actually believe that's true I think that there's a hormonal balance which
is driving you to which is driving the sort of weight gain which is causing the calories in to
be excessive calories out that is for example if you take the wrong food which is you eat a lot
of that junk food which spikes or insulin all the those calories goes into storage right it goes
all into storage that leaves you ravenous so you can eat more right you go get another bag of chips
right so yes your calories in excess it sees your calories out that is the only way that you get
body fat storage it's what's driving you to store all this what's driving you to eat all that it's
because you haven't eaten the right food right that's that's that's where it's like it's it's one
of these things where you say you know if you say body fat equals calories in calories out what's
the primary driving force here I think it's the the the the body fat the body fat is saying Feed
me more Feed me more Feed me more you're eating more you're driving all those calories of storage
which leaves you with nothing left so you either eat more or you decrease your metabolic rate but
the primary event was the increase in body fat which is driven by the hormones telling you to
increase your body fat so therefore if you don't pay attention to that just like if you don't
pay attention to the depression say you know then you say oh it's all about alcohol you have no
willpower like you're just drinking alcohol it's alcohol in minus alcohol that's the first law
of thermodynamics you can't create alcohol from nothing so the whole idea is that it's it's it's
you're not looking at the right sort of end of it you're looking at the result not the cause and
then trying to make a treatment like the treatment of alcoholism is just don't drink alcohol well
sure but you haven't addressed the actual cause which is depression same thing if you have say
a food addiction or if you eat Ultra processed foods which leads you to have very high insulin
which leads you to store a lot of body fat right because insulin tells your body to store body fat
which leads you to have excess calorie intake of these Ultra processed foods well the problem is
the ultra processed foods right so need to fix that not say just eat fewer calories right because
if you're eating fewer calories of that you can burn fewer calories and still G that weight
right so it's it's really the what what is the primary driving event and what is the sort of end
result so they do go together in that you do have calories but it's not the it's the effect not the
cause I'm glad that you said that um I had Dr Ben bikman on the podcast as well and it is important
to understand it is both but but the calories is not the driving factor it's the hormones so once
you fix the hormones by dropping the insulin we're going to talk about the best strategy to drop your
insulin um as well as diet and food and things to eat and not to eat um but if you drop if you fix
the hormones fix the insulin you're not hungry if you're not hungry you tend to eat less and you
eat until you feel satiated and what your body actually needs rather than forcing lower calories
let's talk about fixing hormones lowering your insulin predominantly so we're going to first talk
about fasting because you are I guess the founder of intermittent fasting but you kind of say that
you're not the founder you just spoke about it first yeah because something it's been used for
thousands of years but the thing is that fasting is simply a period of time that you allow when you
set aside a period of time not eating you're going to allow your insulin levels to fall right and
that's the whole problem when you eat all the time is that you're not allowing your insulin levels to
fall so only when you allow those insulin levels to fall that you now signal to your body to start
pulling those calories back out of storage right that's really the only way you can do that which
I always thought was funny because people are saying you should eat 10 times a day that was the
prevailing wisdom when I started talking about it and it's like then you should eat 10 times a day
to lose weight I'm like how do you expect that to happen like physiologically you simply cannot
lose body fat when your insulin levels are high and you're eating you can't because your body
is getting the instructions to store calories not burn calories so essentially if the only time
that you can actually pull those calories out of storage is to let is Then Fall to and fasting is
probably the most efficient way to get there then why don't you simply extend the period of time
you spend fasting it's totally makes sense right physiologic standpoint it makes sense there's
no reason why I didn't do it people have done it for thousands of years it's you know you need
about it in you know the Bible and you read about it in every sort of major religious texts and
Buddhism and Hinduism and you know every other major religion Islam what whatever you want to do
there's there's fasting built into it so therefore it's not some crazy thing that I just sort of made
up right it's been used for thousands of years so if there's a problem with it we would have known
about it ages ago so now that we actually have a problem with excess obesity why can't you use it
then as a tool to improve your metabolic health because you're allowing your body to normalize
those insulin levels that are too high that is your insulin levels are too high so the fasting
allows you to bring it down is it fun no not really I didn't say it was fun why is it not fun
it's actually really easy my God it's like for me it was a lifesaver even doing a 168 and the
best thing about fasting or intermittent fasting it's so flexible so you don't have to have these
pre-prescribed um must do hours must do hours or OMS it's very flexible during the week during the
month during your life yeaha exactly that's how people have always used it like so certain time
certain periods of the year for example you're supposed to fast right I remember you know I'd go
to church Catholic church and every year around Easter time they talk about lent and fasting and
all that like every single year like and it's like okay well even as they were talking about it the
doctor was saying nobody should fast you should eat 10 times a day it's like oh that's strange
why is there this again this strange psychom me between what people had accepted as a healthy
sort of longevity Wellness practice right because it was always couched in those terms right it's
a purification it's a detoxification right that's what fasting has been called um and this idea
that fasting was extremely hard and bad on the body right it's like it was a very strange sort of
thing so it's simply one way for people to achieve and and I thought it was funny too because as as
some of the first studies went through I remember thinking okay fasting you know if you think about
the diet in the 60s and 70s you know you ate dinner around 6 o'clock 7 o'clock perhaps and you
ate breakfast around 7 8:00 in the morning perhaps then you went to school right and it's like okay
so that's like 13 14 hours a day without even thinking about it that wasn't that wasn't fasting
that was just normal eating right there's a period of time to eat and a period of time to fast so 13
14 hours and then they do these studies where they go okay we did a 16 hour fast for people and then
it let people eat whatever they wanted I'm like that's not that's not going to be nearly enough
for most people because you know for some people it's going to be okay but you know so then a lot
of the early studies were like oh we didn't show any benefits it's like yeah on the one hand you
you extended the fasting period by a little bit on the other hand you told people to eat whatever
they wanted right so it's like okay well that's not good like they're not supposed to do that what
what kind of what Clinic has I've never been in a clinic where I told people you can eat whatever
you want right it's like but that's how they did the studies right and or they they tell people
to fast for a period of time and then make sure they ate extra on their other days I'm like okay
why would you do that like that's not advice I would ever give right so so that's why some of
the early studies were quite you know bad but now we have actually a number of studies looking
at in you know for reversing type two diabetes there's you know number of studies now that have
shown that it's it's possible in fact it makes perfect sense from you know from a physiologic
standpoint makes perfect sense from uh you know from a personal standpoint like it's it's flexible
there's there's it there's you know there's this it there's this history there's this you know
history of humanity and fasting that has been there for a long long time that we sort of ignored
as is sort of just being brought back so it's it's that that was one of the things that is is really
um I you know one of the the things I always said was it's just a tool right it's you want to use
a grade if you don't want to use it that's fine you don't have to but if you're failing that is
something that you can add absolutely what do you think about breakfast I think breakfast is you
know the thing is that it you can eat breakfast but remember the meal that breaks your fast is
the meal that breaks your fast whether it's in the morning or not it doesn't matter like you can
eat you can break your fast at noon you can break your fast in the evening it's still when you break
your fast so you can skip it so um you know it's it's some people they they skip breakfast and
other people will say oh that's really really bad for you but this it's not at at some point
you have to break your fast right I mean if you wake up at 7 it break your fast at s it's fine if
you wake up at 11:00 and break your fast at 11: it's fine it doesn't mean you need to set your
alarm wake up four hours early to eat and then go back to sleep like that doesn't make any sense the
whole thing about breakfast you know on the one hand if you eat your calories earlier it is better
for you uh than eating later right so if you eat earlier it's not then have the rest of the day to
work it off and so on if you eat very late then of course then you have nothing to do but store
it right so if you eat at like 11:00 p.m.
A big meal well what what are your body going to do with
that right well you're going to go to sleep then your body is just going to store it there's really
nothing you can do whereas with if you eat early you're going to be able to you know use it through
the day and eat less through the rest of like the lunch and dinner so seeing breakfast is not a
bad thing but it's not you know it's it's not necessarily good thing if you're pushing all your
meals super late either right so you just have to find a balance I've always said that you know
it's it's not really the most important meal of the day it's just a meal and and it has to
fall within where you you know where you take it there's lots of different things you can do
so some people eating breakfast is great because then they feel full they eat less throughout the
rest of the day and they don't eat as much late at night which is worse for you so if you if on the
other hand you're not hungry at breakfast then it de reasonable strategy is to not eat breakfast
and then just eat you know a healthier meal at at at lunchtime the problem with breakfast is
not that you know it's not that it's early or whatever the problem is that everybody's in a rush
everybody's looking for something which is fast with no cleanup which means usually some kind of
prepackaged Ultra processed food right so you're eating not like eggs and you know sausage which
was sort of this traditional breakfast because nobody wants to cook it eat it clean it up and
then go so you got to wake up like what an hour earlier just for that so what do they eat like
breakfast cereal right lots of sugar lots of refes food Ultra processed for sure they slice of bread
with you know with Jam which is all processed and sugary right so that's the problem where you eat
a poptart which is all processed and sugar and refined Foods right so the problem with breakfast
is not that it's early like if you eat a good breakfast that's fine but nobody wants to spend
the time so then it's a very highly processed Meal which is bad for you right so you're better
off not eating it and eating something nice for lunch which you you cook and is relatively
unprocessed and all that sort of thing we're going to talk about specifics fasting lengths and
foods to eat but before that I wanted to get your thoughts about a study from the American Heart
Association it showed a 91% increase risk of death from cardiovascular events with intermittent
fasting a few months ago people might have heard that study can you just share your thoughts about
that yeah that study was basically garbage um what they did was they took people and they asked
them you know um you know how long do you eat for what's your fasting duration and so on and they
took it from a think2 to 2017 or something like that and what they said was that people who um
ate you know within a eight hour eating window like a 168 had higher was associated with higher
risk of heart disease the problem with Association is that it doesn't show uh causation right so just
because something is associated doesn't mean that something caused it so in this case first of all
nobody was using fasting for weight loss so so it wasn't a weight loss diet right from 2002 to 2016
when I published the ABC code basically nobody was using fasting it wasn't even nobody mentioned it
like you can look on Google Trends you can look at whatever there is like zero mention of it so
the people who are not eating were not eating not because they want to lose weight but they're
not eating for other reasons and you say okay well what are those other reasons well maybe they
have other illnesses maybe they have cancer maybe they have alcoholism maybe they're on drugs like
a lot of other reasons why people are not eating properly but they weren't doing it to lose weight
at that period of time so therefore if you're took a group of people where there's a lot more sick
people cancer patients you know uh drug patient you know people on drugs people on alcohol well
you're going to have a higher risk um the the study you know they always forget to mention that
if you look at people who ate over a 10hour span so suppose you ate you know you ate breakfast at
8:00 a.m and ate dinner at 6:00 p.m.
So not not bad pretty reasonable sort of eating schedule well
that was Associated I think with a 30% in no 61% increased risk of heart disease so are you telling
me that in order like that doesn't even make any sense if you're eating a normal eating schedule
that's worse for you than virtually any other risk factor in medicine like like you know if you're
not exercising you know it's it's worse than for heart disease than anything else that doesn't
even make any sense so that whole association study was just garbage because it's it's sort of
like saying that you know I I took a whole bunch of people who had gray hair and I found that
their risk of dying was third three three times more than people without gray hair it's like well
duh people with gray hair are older like that's the reason right why are you doing this stupid
study same thing with the fasting like you took a group of people who were not eating for many many
different reasons right many of them puts them at higher risk of heart disease and then you say
well it's because they're not eating that's what caused it no it's not what caused it it's just an
association there's a million associations just like if you say well if you look at um you know
eating ice cream you'll find that uh when you eat ice cream your risk of drowning is like you know
five times why because people eat ice cream in the summer people swim in the summer that's why if
you're eating ice cream your risk of drowning is higher not because ice cream causes drowning but
because both happen at around roughly the same time same thing right you you take a group of
people who are not eating for some other reason and then you try and blame that for the higher
risk of heart disease so it's a complete garbage study it's like the worst study that ever done but
it's super click ba that's why I asked because I think that if we have this conversation about
fasting and lowering the insulin you know these things that make headlines they scare people and
that's what they're trying to do it's the same thing as breakfast is the most important meal of
the day why because Kelloggs wants to sell you a cereal but if you eat these foods that we're going
to talk about and do a fasting window or a fasting length you can naturally burn fat and you can also
prevent metabolic disease it is simple but we have to take out the clickbaity the garbage information
in the background let's talk about fasting Windows if somebody wants to start fasting to drop their
insulin to burn fat to prevent metabolic disease is there a Best fasting length there isn't really
um they can all work uh some people like different ones so some people like long fast and some people
like short fast so every day you're supposed to have a fasting period right that's where the word
breakfast comes from right break your fast right it means you have to fast to break your fast right
you're not supposed to be eating all the time fasting is when you burn your calories eating is
when you store your calories right so you have to have a period where you're not eating right and
that's what the word itself means so every day you should have about 12 to 14 hours that's just
regular right me don't eat anything after dinner uh until breakfast time right and that's that's
essentially a 12-hour um plus 12 to 14 hour fast then if you want to lose weight then you can push
it up you can do 16 generally if you do um you know a shorter fast then you have to do it more
frequently if you do a long longer fast you don't have to do it as frequently and you can do any
of them so 16 hours you can go 18 you can do 24 you could do two days 3 days four days five days
whatever you really feel like so there's a lot of people who um you know like one versus the other
and I have a lot of people I'll tell you who like the long fast and not so much the shorter fast
so they'll still maintain that sort of 12-hour fast but they don't do the 16 every day right
because it's less um it's they they don't like it like everybody's different right some people
like one thing you know some people like the other thing it's not right or wrong you simply have
to adjust it to whatever works for you right so that's that's that's the thing so you have to
sort of experiment and see what works for you because obviously if you're one of these people
that really likes the three-day fast every so often uh then you should do that because if that
maintains you at your goal then good on you then there's a reason no reason why you shouldn't do
that as opposed to other people who would say oh I can't do that I can't go more than you know 18
hours so they do 16 hours or 18 hours and it does well for them well they should do that and you
should do that so there's no right or wrong answer but you do have to sort of experiment a little
bit to find out what's what's you know best okay I want to talk about extended fasting um because
people generally want to do the extended fasting to get the therapeutic benefits um in terms of
perhaps cancer um to get into ketosis perhaps using water fasting can you talk about why eating
too much protein might affect your results from extended fasting or trying to get into autophagy
yeah protein is mostly um for autophagy so this is sort of an ongoing um you know discussion because
if you look at autophagy this is a process where your body sort of breaks down some of it subcell
components and it sounds really bad but it's actually not it's actually really good for you so
one of the things is there's autophagy and there's mitophagy which is autophagy for mitochondria
which is the sort of energy generating parts of the cell and um the the reason it's good to break
down these uh sort of subset components is because after you break them down then you can build new
ones and same thing with the mitochondria once you break them down then you can generate new ones
and you know when you think about that process of breaking down old stuff and building stuff
it's really process of Rejuvenation so really when you're talking about autophagy it's very
popular in terms of longevity and all these uh people who who who like to discuss it and one
thing that really stops autophagy is protein so amino acids when you eat amino acids that really
stops autophagy in this tracks and you can see how that might be one of these sort of not so good
things for from a you know longevity standpoint because it's just like if you keep you know know
uh you're at the same house without renovating for a long time everything just starts to get
old as opposed to if you're breaking down you know tearing out the old bathroom putting in new
bathroom tearing out the old kitchen putting in new kitchen everything starts you know looks good
and works better same thing with autophagy you really want to break things down and build them
back up which is what fasting does because it it it stops the protein which is activating you know
when you stop protein you activate autophagy which is the break down and then fast increases growth
hormon so that when you rebuild you rebuild new so that's that that renovation uh Rejuvenation
process so the problem is that there protein is sort of this two-sided thing if you don't get
enough protein well you don't have the building blocks to build new stuff um if you eat too much
protein then perhaps you may activate this mtor which is a nutrient sensor for for amino acids and
stop theophagy kind of hold so it's sort of this T like nobody knows where to go with all this on the
one hand there are people who say oh you should take drugs like rap to stop mtor on the other hand
they're they're saying oh well but then you need to eat more protein which increases out in pour so
we don't know really where this whole process is going to lie out my guess is that it it's uh it's
going to be one of these cyclical things so once in a while you should have sort of lower protein
like during fasting and then the other times you should have relatively high protein because you
want to rebuild it so it could be one of these things that needs to cycle between one and the
other as opposed to sort of you need this right and the thing is that everybody thinks that you
you need this but the human body never is like this it's always up and down up and down it's
always Cycles right same is fasting and feeding and you have to fast and then you have to feed
you don't just go all the way across it's actually really bad for you to do that it's probably the
same for a lot of uh a lot of things same same as muscle growth for example like you want to stress
it sometimes so that's how you build muscle right if you lift the same five pound weight all the
time that's not nearly as good for you at once in a while you lift 20 pound weights right it's
just the way the human body is you know it's it's it doesn't it doesn't really like that sort of
stable sort of thing because it doesn't keep it healthy exactly the body's always trying to stay
in hemostasia so it's trying to keep balance and then stay the same uh so we need to vary our
fasting lengths maybe uh we need to vary kind of what we eat maybe vary the protein let's talk
about Foods because along with the fasting not just not eating all the time so even if we do
like a 12 14 hour um eating window and then you can do a 168 and then progress it from there but
in that eating window we need to think about what we're eating um what do you think about foods like
like oatmeal um so it's it's it's a mix right so it's not that you need to be um super uh super
low carp for example really what you're trying to optimize is the insulin and different types of
oatmeal will have different effects so if you eat um steel cut oats it has a much different effect
than instant OES if you put a lot of sugar in it like with the instant OES then that's have further
detrimental effects so the oal wasn't bad because you have to realize that a lot of cultures are
based on you know starches and stuff like we've eaten up throughout history so therefore that
can't be this the sole reason uh the way we process them is relatively new right so you know
it's one thing to eat uh corn for example then you have all our sort of genetically modified corn
so therefore it may not be the same but then you turn it into corn chips for example and that's
completely different right you throw a bunch of artificial seasonings and flavors into them well
that's completely different than the original corn that you ate you know 30 years ago so there
there is a difference and I think ultimately and this is what I said in the Obesity code is that
it's ultimately the processing of foods that is going to probably be the most important thing
so eating sort of making sure you have your proper fasting schedule but when you're eating you
making sure that you eat unprocessed Foods because when you eat unprocessed Foods it's very difficult
to sort of go overboard on them right overboard means that you eat them and you can't stop eating
them because they have such say low satiety value right so if you eat you know an apple you usually
stop after one but you know if you drink apple juice you could drink the juice of five apples
for example right so that that extra step of juicing them or processing them has made you sort
of over uh you know uh take too much of a certain component of it which is the juice part right but
that's also the part that has the no satiety right because you're not eating the actual pulp you're
not eating the fiber so all you're getting is the juice of it which is a lot of the sugar and not a
lot of the stuff that's going to make you full so the processing that step of processing same as
you you go from steel cutouts to instan notes you've taken that step and made it a much less um
sort of healthy food that is if you look at the glucose Spike and Insulin spike is much different
you can do the same with virtually any other Foods right like you can you can take a food and then
turn it into an ultra processed food right you can take a chicken and then you can turn it into
a chicken nugget right and it's not the same like it's much different and how much you eat is much
different because remember when they process foods they often lower the satiety value of the food so
that when you eat it normally you eat a piece of uh you know a food is going to make you full but
if they do something to it process it usually like turn it into corn chips or something they'll put
additives and stuff so that you can keep eating them right because they want to sell it to you
they want you to eat more so therefore that value if you go back towards the unprocessed Foods
that's going to make you healthier for longer because it's going to be that natural food that is
going to make you full right there are all these mechanisms in our body hormonal mechanisms to stop
us from overeating those are what most processing tries to circumvent so that you'll eat more right
it's not it's deliberate well I was going to ask you about uh Diet Coke but that's fullon Pro
because I have a list here because people they eat these Foods so although it sounds so simple
to many other people but for other people they're like well doesn't have any calories and we spoke
about the calorie assumption but diet soda is also process so what you're saying is first of all eat
whole unprocessed foods but I wanted to ask about the carbohydrate concept because then you have
other PE because it's all about lowering your insulin so fasting is one way if people can do
it however when you eat carbohydrates even in the whole unprocessed form that's going to raise
your insulin so conversely is it not better to eat perhaps protein and fat and vegetables um for
sure for sure sometimes it works for some people so but it's it's not simply the carbohydrate car
the total amount of carbohydrate is one component of how much insulin it you know it it does you
know it goes right so same if you look at oatmeal Steel cutos versus inotes for example same Foods
same calories same carbs but one has double the insulin effect of the other right because of
that processing right they've shredded it it gets absorbed much faster because it you know they
got rid of a lot of the fiber of it so same foods but much different insulin effect so therefore
one of them you might be able to tolerate pretty reasonably the other you can't because it's
been processed to do that so cutting the so the total number of carbs is a large component
of the insulin effect but it's not the only impact of it right so therefore you certainly you
can cut down all carbs that's that's a reasonable strategy but you don't always have to some people
will tolerate a certain amount of it right and that's that's the idea is that you want to balance
those the whole diet cope thing is interesting because a lot of people tolerate it fine right
there's you know for some people it's it's not a problem but there are other people who simply
they they they drink this diet soda and they get really much hungrier than if they didn't
right and it's the sweetness of it it's because of whatever chemical uh compound it is and therefore
for those people you can't say oh it's about it's there's no calories so therefore it's okay it's
like no the problem is that it's activating certain neural Pathways with the sweetness that is
making you hungry if it's making you hungry it's going to make you eat more which is going to be
detrimental to you right um so so it's not simply the calories right it's it's the total effect
including the hormones because it it does have hormonal effects on the body pin is the main
one but there are others as well so gp1s is is another one for example and that's obviously very
important hormone system because they they use it for OIC and things like that let's talk about gp1s
a very popular weight loss medication this is the last thing we're going to talk about because
I want to know what's better fasting or OIC I think they're different um see the whole idea
with OIC is that by stimulating gp1 and remember it's also very super physiologic so it's not a
normal amount of glp1 it's a very high level of glp1 that's that's basically makes you not hungry
which makes you not want to eat so it really does something very similar to fasting because a lot
of people will not eat while they're off this because they're not as Eed so it's not that
they're against each other that one is better than the other they can actually work together
so it's not a problem the problem is that if you um if you don't learn good habits while you're
taking the OIC good dietary habits then when you stop it the weight comes right back so it's a
very temporary fix so because metabolic disease is a process that takes decades you like what are
you going to do take it for decades it's possible but it's not easy so you know I've prescribed a
lot of it because it's it's a drug that has good effects for diabetes for example I take care of a
lot of people with diabetes so I've prescribed it quite heavily over the last five years I'll tell
you that it's far from a Panacea people think it's great it's going to cure everything but the
truth is that a lot of people just don't stay on it um I saw this uh study from Blue Cross where
they looked at you know what happens in the real world and they s saw that uh and it was like
169,000 Blue Cross patients I think only about 25% of people were still on it after a year and
that's pretty close to this the experience I have prescribing a lot of people don't don't stay on
it why because you get nauseated because you don't enjoy your Foods because you know remember the
the the whole idea is that if you're not hungry and you're nauseated you're not going to eat
but it takes away the pleasure of eating and the pleasure of eating is one of really of one of
life's great Pleasures right you think about what every all cultures everybody's like oh you know
let's celebrate let's go get something you know go to a nice restaurant let's get some you know
something delicious right that's how you enjoy yourself right that's one of the one of the sort
of universal things that humans All Humans uh do and if you take that away well it's not so fun
anymore right so it's hard it's yeah you can do it for six months but can you do it for four five
six seven years let alone like 20 years 20 years is a long time to never enjoy your food right
after a year most people are like uh you know what I don't think it's really worth it right so the
thing about fasting because it's it's different you're actually heighten your enjoyment because
you're restricting yourself therefore you enjoy it all the more when you do take it uh yes it is a
little harder but on the other hand you're you're learning those good habits that you'll be able
to sustain because people say oh fasting is unsustainable it's like you know we've been doing
it for thousands of years like it is literally something that people have done for their entire
life if there's anything sustainable it's fasting because that has been our tradition right and
60s and 70s people were fasting 12 14 hours a day every single day so don't tell me that's not
sustainable it is sustainable it's just a matter of adjusting your expectations so hmic is okay
I don't I don't mind it it's a good drug as all the drug Studies have shown but it does have a
huge downside and it's more than the it's more than the nausea the vomiting the diarrhea that
kind of thing that is it's quite common it's it's that sort of taking away the enjoyment of
food like you will never be able to enjoy a good meal people tell me oh you know I go out there
and I look at it and I just feel sick it's like oh well that's nice they you're going out to your
nice birthday dinner that somebody's splurged for you and you're like oh my God I cannot eat that
steak that is literally going to make me throw up because that's what OIC will do right and
and that's what it's supposed to do that's how it gives you the benefits but if you can learn
how to do it yourself then you're actually much better off I don't mind if people want to do it
as a crotch you know whatever they want to do uh I'm not against medications but it's you know
if you expect it to solve all your problems then I think you're going to be mistaken it's actually
not that it's not that effective because not all that many people want to stay on it forever
kind of like a diet nobody wants to stay on a diet but people can just generally do fasting
really really easily yeah it's a difference right it's a difference of saying that I'm going to
cut out like whatever diet you want do say you want to be a vegan so you're going to cut out
all meat products for your whole life or low or zero carbs so all carbs for the rest of your life
that's very daunting to think about as opposed to stay okay well I'm going to cut out everything
but only for two days or one day or whatever it is then tomorrow I'm going to be able to enjoy
a little bit of carbs or meat or whatever it is Diet you choose right it's a it's a much different
experience so if you say okay well I've gained a bit of weight so I'm going to do like a lot
of fasting for the next two weeks you know I'm GNA have one meel a day and I'm going to do a
three-day fast and I'm going to do this well it's only two weeks at the end of two weeks you can go
back to eating some things you enjoy well that's a lot different from a psychological standpoint than
okay well I've decided I'm never gonna have XY Z for the rest of my life like that's a long time
same thing with those IG like you're not going to enjoy anything or it'll be much diminished
right um you know that that was you know it's a reasonable strategy but it's the same problem
as bariatric surgery had right it was supposed to cure everything it didn't in fact people we rarely
see people get that kind of surgery anymore it's it just hasn't panned out in the long term if it
was so good we'd be doing lots of it that surgery the truth is we rarely do that surger we rarely
see people out doing that surgery if there was one thing that you want people to take away from
this conversation what is that one thing I think the the one thing is to really um understand that
it's the hormones that drive weight gain and a lot of metabolic disease because the same hyper leing
that drives a lot of disease it's not the calories right so confusing the two makes you uh make bad
choices right so you eat things like you know low fat fake Foods because they're calories but in
fact they're actually much worse for you let's say eating instant oats as opposed to steel cut
oats because it's more convenient and hey it's the same number of calories but not understanding that
hey it's an ultra processed food it has different effects on your glucose different effects on
your insulin so the instant opial is not the same as the steel cutos right so not understanding
the hormonal part of things which is much more complicated I grant you than calories right people
try and boil it down to a very very simplistic model of calories which leads them to make bad
choices and then they don't understand why am I gaining weight like is the same calories I'm
cutting my calories It's like because that wasn't the important issue that's that's the thing I I
hope people try to understand from from all this I think they will I'm going to leave all your books
and links and resources in the show notes um you have two bestselling books the the diabetes code
and the Obesity code and that has really changed the lives of people and slowly slowly people are
understanding these new Concepts it takes time for it to evolve and to get into our minds but
Dr fun thank you so much it's been a pleasure and I'm sure we're going to see you very very soon
thank you so much thank you for joining me on this episode with Dr Jason fun you can find the full
show notes including books reference articles and free resources at the 5 minute body Labs there is
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hit the Subscribe button that is an excellent zeroc cost way to support this free health podcast
you can Al find me on other social media accounts I'm at 5 Minute body on Instagram and on X
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one and if you love this episode you would also enjoy another episode I did with Dr Ben bman
Dr bman explains the scientific way to help your body burn belly fat Dr bikman talks about
why hormones is more important than counting calories the difference between brown and white
fat and a surprising sugar that might help you burn body fat finally thank you for your interest
in root cause healing and I'll see you next week
